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General support questions.

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Daniel UK1 - 1-4-2020 at 05:40 AM

Peter, when in Manager, App setttings>Public Data Directory.. standard is Data

I would like to move over to Dropbox to use for GSB... when i change this above, to DROPBOX > DATA

What will this affect? does this affect everything inside data folder? so i could just copy DATA folder from C GSB now, to dropbox, and then change as above, and DATA folder in C GSB could be deleted since it will be of no use?

Regards
Daniel

RandyT - 1-4-2020 at 06:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Daniel UK1  
Peter, when in Manager, App setttings>Public Data Directory.. standard is Data

I would like to move over to Dropbox to use for GSB... when i change this above, to DROPBOX > DATA

What will this affect? does this affect everything inside data folder? so i could just copy DATA folder from C GSB now, to dropbox, and then change as above, and DATA folder in C GSB could be deleted since it will be of no use?

Regards
Daniel


Daniel, I will share my experience when doing this in the past. I know that Peter has some changes on the queue that should allow this, but I am not sure if this is complete yet.

If you do this, GSB will still by default continue to look in GSB\Data for settings, macros, data files, etc. You can do it, but you will have to walk directory to your Dropbox every time you try to access any of these, save settings files, etc.

As I mentioned, I tried this but gave in and went back to standard location as it was too fraught with issues of forgetting to change over to my preferred location. When this is fixed, it will be very handy for sharing configs, data, etc. among a group of collaborates for example.


Daniel UK1 - 1-4-2020 at 07:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RandyT  
Quote: Originally posted by Daniel UK1  
Peter, when in Manager, App setttings>Public Data Directory.. standard is Data

I would like to move over to Dropbox to use for GSB... when i change this above, to DROPBOX > DATA

What will this affect? does this affect everything inside data folder? so i could just copy DATA folder from C GSB now, to dropbox, and then change as above, and DATA folder in C GSB could be deleted since it will be of no use?



Daniel, I will share my experience when doing this in the past. I know that Peter has some changes on the queue that should allow this, but I am not sure if this is complete yet.

If you do this, GSB will still by default continue to look in GSB\Data for settings, macros, data files, etc. You can do it, but you will have to walk directory to your Dropbox every time you try to access any of these, save settings files, etc.

As I mentioned, I tried this but gave in and went back to standard location as it was too fraught with issues of forgetting to change over to my preferred location. When this is fixed, it will be very handy for sharing configs, data, etc. among a group of collaborates for example.



Thanks Randy, Appreciate your input, yes was afraid it was not as easy as i thought :).. then i just wait until Peter has finished the new feature fix for this... Regards

Regards
Daniel

moresi522 - 1-4-2020 at 08:06 AM

Hi,
I don't understand why there are different number of trades from multicharts to GSB sometimes . (both list of trades attached)
I've exported USDJPY data from 01/01/2010 until now,

All test have been made with scripts -> MultiCharts -> Matcheck (still don't understand the difference with Livetrading, it's not only with date, also the generated trades are different)

I try to build a USDJPY system, with this Session:
Monday 00:00 to 23:59
Tuesday 00:00 to 23:59
Wednesday 00:00 to 23:59
Thursdary00:00 to 23:59
Friday 00:00 to 23:59
Sunday 16:00 to 23:59 (As you can see in Session.png)

But If I see the list of trades from Gsb and I noticed some alarming discrepancies.
The first one is the number of trades 101 for GSB and 120 for MC
The first six trades are identical then the differences begin, please see difference.png attached.

For the first 7 trades everything works fine, and after that differences began.

I've check other scripts but all of them seems wrong.

I do not really understand If I'm doing somenthing wrong or could be a bug.

Now I will try to generate some ES system with default setting to see if there are some differences also there.

does anyone have any ideas?







Session.PNG - 13kB

Attachment: Login to view the details

Attachment: Login to view the details differences.png - 196kB

Daniel UK1 - 1-4-2020 at 08:22 AM

Quote: Originally posted by moresi522  
Hi,
I don't understand why there are different number of trades from multicharts to GSB sometimes . (both list of trades attached)
I've exported USDJPY data from 01/01/2010 until now,

All test have been made with scripts -> MultiCharts -> Matcheck (still don't understand the difference with Livetrading, it's not only with date, also the generated trades are different)

I try to build a USDJPY system, with this Session:
Monday 00:00 to 23:59
Tuesday 00:00 to 23:59
Wednesday 00:00 to 23:59
Thursdary00:00 to 23:59
Friday 00:00 to 23:59
Sunday 16:00 to 23:59 (As you can see in Session.png)

But If I see the list of trades from Gsb and I noticed some alarming discrepancies.
The first one is the number of trades 101 for GSB and 120 for MC
The first six trades are identical then the differences begin, please see difference.png attached.

For the first 7 trades everything works fine, and after that differences began.

I've check other scripts but all of them seems wrong.

I do not really understand If I'm doing somenthing wrong or could be a bug.

Now I will try to generate some ES system with default setting to see if there are some differences also there.

does anyone have any ideas?













Hi, I use MC and GSB, but do not experience these discrepancies on any symbol, can it have to do with your Timezone settings? session templates? different on trading server and dev pc ? exact same chart you exported data from, that you are using to test the GSB system on ? i have never used 24hour data like this, perhaps this could be something to look into ..

I dont think its a bug, its something in your settings, data, that probably is causing this.

Regards

moresi522 - 1-4-2020 at 10:42 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Daniel UK1  


Hi, I use MC and GSB, but do not experience these discrepancies on any symbol, can it have to do with your Timezone settings? session templates? different on trading server and dev pc ? exact same chart you exported data from, that you are using to test the GSB system on ? i have never used 24hour data like this, perhaps this could be something to look into ..

I dont think its a bug, its something in your settings, data, that probably is causing this.

Regards


Thanks for your reply Daniel and for your advice, I'll try to check everything you've told me.
I'll let you know

Daniel UK1 - 1-4-2020 at 01:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by moresi522  
Quote: Originally posted by Daniel UK1  


Hi, I use MC and GSB, but do not experience these discrepancies on any symbol, can it have to do with your Timezone settings? session templates? different on trading server and dev pc ? exact same chart you exported data from, that you are using to test the GSB system on ? i have never used 24hour data like this, perhaps this could be something to look into ..

I dont think its a bug, its something in your settings, data, that probably is causing this.

Regards


Thanks for your reply Daniel and for your advice, I'll try to check everything you've told me.
I'll let you know


A tip would be to save a separate workspace for each symbol you trade and use in GSB, and here you have you chart that you export data from, and then you have a copy of this with your specific timeframes on same workspace... with this setup you always can be sure that you test systems on exact same data setup that you exported from....

Regards

moresi522 - 2-4-2020 at 07:54 AM

Daniel Unfortunately I didn't solve my problem.

Today I've asked a colleague of mine (he's a forex trader) for setting up the corrent evironment (session, timezone ecc) and we create a session FX identical for both environment (SessionMC_GSB.PNG) after that I've create a couple of system (just for testing) with same session session (usdjpy.png) then i copied from scripts -> Multicharts mathcheck to Multichart, obiouvsly with same session (sessionusdjpy.png) and I've spent a lot of hour with my colleague trying to find out where the differences can arise.
I've created a xls and i've checked the first 50 trades (listtrades.xlsx).
The first six are identical. same date and same price in both platforms, After the "sx-Nthdy" (signal column trade number 6) it start making mistake. and every time I see "sx-nthday" (or "lx-nthDy) it "restart" working well, and sometimes a trade open is good and close is wrong or viceversa.

what I wonder, if I had missed the session how could the first 6 trades (form 28/2/2010 to 15/4/2010) how can work well?

i've attached the mc code also (usdjpy.pla)

I'm at my wit's end.

Peter for your experience, is it a configuration error or something else?







SessionMC_GSB.PNG - 27kB usdjpy.PNG - 10kB sessionusdjpy.PNG - 23kB listoftrades.PNG - 291kB

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Attachment: Login to view the details

Daniel UK1 - 2-4-2020 at 09:59 AM

Moresi, if you try to find out if its a symbol issue or not.... have you same error on all other symbols ? produce systems for ES and NG... then make same test, still discrepancy ? use day sessions only... no issue ? then use no close trade end of day.. still no issue? then i assume its something to do with your symbol for some reason.... then i would try existing symbol the Fx.. change to close end of day.. issue?
Try to limit to max 1 trade per day, test

Have you checked tradereport in GSB and compared to MC, same decimals etc on symbol... figures looks as in MC?

Just try to isolate one thing at the time and rule out things...

If not anything from above, then its above my paygrade, perhaps someone else can help with more experience than me of MC here?

Regards

moresi522 - 2-4-2020 at 02:32 PM

Thank you for your help Daniel,

tomorrow I'll do some tests following your advice.

I'll let you know

admin - 2-4-2020 at 03:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by moresi522  
Thank you for your help Daniel,

tomorrow I'll do some tests following your advice.

I'll let you know

send me teamviewer.com codes and I will look at the issue

numberjuani - 20-4-2020 at 12:11 PM

Hello,
Has anybody had any luck using end of week close? I have tried many combinations of things and not able to make it work

Daniel UK1 - 20-4-2020 at 12:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by moresi522  
Thank you for your help Daniel,

tomorrow I'll do some tests following your advice.

I'll let you know


Moresi, did you solve it ? did you tested what i proposed ? any luck ?

Regards

moresi522 - 29-4-2020 at 02:20 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Daniel UK1  


Moresi, did you solve it ? did you tested what i proposed ? any luck ?

Regards

Hi Daniel,
sorry, I didn't notice you wrote me.

First of all I have to say Peter helps a lot with this "issue", and he founds for forex we ha have to set to 24/5 (well, with MC) and not with my custom session (even if market opens on monday).

With 24/5 session on GSB and default on MC it works great

moresi522 - 29-4-2020 at 02:24 AM

HI,
There's one thing I didn't understand on GSB.
On Performance Filter - Training I set Min. Net Profit as 1 (Well, it's the default), so I imagine in the Unique systems tab I should find always systems with positive fitness and Net Profit, but when GSB generates the systems there are always a lot of system with negative Fitness and negative Net profit.

I don't understand the reason.

Daniel UK1 - 29-4-2020 at 02:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by moresi522  
HI,
There's one thing I didn't understand on GSB.
On Performance Filter - Training I set Min. Net Profit as 1 (Well, it's the default), so I imagine in the Unique systems tab I should find always systems with positive fitness and Net Profit, but when GSB generates the systems there are always a lot of system with negative Fitness and negative Net profit.

I don't understand the reason.


Hi Moresi, Peter can correct me if i am wrong, but i assume you use nth function, which make the setting in training only filters min values you set, to be valid for IS while OOS your strategy performs worse and overall gives you a negative fitness / profit..

Regards

Daniel UK1 - 17-5-2020 at 02:52 AM

Anyone else having issues with GSB cloud, ie no contact between managers and workers, or just me ?

Carl - 17-5-2020 at 07:56 AM

GSB cloud works for me.

sfuser108 - 17-5-2020 at 08:56 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Carl  
GSB cloud works for me.


Working for me as well.. A few Workers today than yesterday

Daniel UK1 - 17-5-2020 at 09:29 AM

Thanks, somehow an error on my network environment.. all good now

moresi522 - 18-5-2020 at 01:35 AM

Hi,
always about cloud workers. If I have 10 processes with 10 different tickers in the cloud workers and I want to save the settings to test one of those, how can I do it?
if you look at the image, on the left there is es on the right NG, how do I copy all settings from right to left?
Thanks

tempsnip.png - 165kB

admin - 18-5-2020 at 01:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by moresi522  
Hi,
always about cloud workers. If I have 10 processes with 10 different tickers in the cloud workers and I want to save the settings to test one of those, how can I do it?
if you look at the image, on the left there is es on the right NG, how do I copy all settings from right to left?
Thanks


Your not the first to ask this.
you never touch any settings in workers, apart from share key and optional cache size. All other settings come from manager

Daniel UK1 - 18-5-2020 at 01:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by moresi522  
Hi,
always about cloud workers. If I have 10 processes with 10 different tickers in the cloud workers and I want to save the settings to test one of those, how can I do it?
if you look at the image, on the left there is es on the right NG, how do I copy all settings from right to left?
Thanks



Never come across this before,

Are you saying that you are seeing another GSB user running a worker on the cloud that is running on your pc, and you want to copy this other users settings to yourself ? have i understood your correct ?

Regards



moresi522 - 18-5-2020 at 03:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Daniel UK1  


Never come across this before,

Are you saying that you are seeing another GSB user running a worker on the cloud that is running on your pc, and you want to copy this other users settings to yourself ? have i understood your correct ?

Regards




Yes Daniel,
but I think is quite usual. If you have a cloud worker you can have more kind of jobs, one for Cl, one for NG and so on. So, for example, if your cloud worker is working on ES, you can select a system with CL in your systems's list, in your left panel you still see the es settings, but in the tab settings in the upper "part", you will see the CL settings.

And I don't know how I can save those settings.
I hope I was clear


moresi522 - 18-5-2020 at 03:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by admin  

Your not the first to ask this.
you never touch any settings in workers, apart from share key and optional cache size. All other settings come from manager


I don't understand, I'm asking if it's possible to save those settings and open them up from a manager.
Are you practically telling me it's not possible to save those settings?
is it right?

thanks

admin - 18-5-2020 at 03:30 AM

Moresi552, im not clear. Do you want the settings from a worker to be applied back to a manager?
This can be done via settingsfullmacro. There is an option to pull settings. It wont pull in the contracts used. This has do be done manually

Daniel UK1 - 18-5-2020 at 05:00 AM

Why is even your settings showing on public cloud workers? is there a reason for this?

admin - 18-5-2020 at 05:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Daniel UK1  
Why is even your settings showing on public cloud workers? is there a reason for this?


Its the simplest way for GSB to function, and if there is something to be diagnosed on a worker, then we need to see the settings

moresi522 - 1-6-2020 at 10:42 AM

Why use UseWfParams in Macro M3?

Hi,
I read macro m3 and if I'm not wrong for stats B it compares data generated from A (
Global dates 2015,useWFcurrparms false) using the same date with UseWFCurrParams = True

I don't understand the meaning of this task. Why UseWFCurrParms = true? which informations give us comparing these two data?

I would understand better if I used, for example, the same data for A and setting nth from no trade to trade to compare the IS and OOS data.

Thanks

Daniel UK1 - 1-6-2020 at 02:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by moresi522  
Why use UseWfParams in Macro M3?

Hi,
I read macro m3 and if I'm not wrong for stats B it compares data generated from A (
Global dates 2015,useWFcurrparms false) using the same date with UseWFCurrParams = True

I don't understand the meaning of this task. Why UseWFCurrParms = true? which informations give us comparing these two data?

I would understand better if I used, for example, the same data for A and setting nth from no trade to trade to compare the IS and OOS data.

Thanks


Hi Moresi, not sure i totally understand your question, but if i understand your correctly A and B for example gives you stats for A without WF and B with... if your process dont value with and without WF stats.. you can use Peters market validation macro, that gives you IS relative to OOS degradation.. if you follow peters methodology for cl then you dont use nth, just all data for build.

moresi522 - 2-6-2020 at 01:44 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Daniel UK1  


Hi Moresi, not sure i totally understand your question, but if i understand your correctly A and B for example gives you stats for A without WF and B with... if your process dont value with and without WF stats.. you can use Peters market validation macro, that gives you IS relative to OOS degradation.. if you follow peters methodology for cl then you dont use nth, just all data for build.


Hi Daniel,
I would like to understand the meaning of this choice. Don't just do it because you do it. What information does IS results compare to the same data with UseWfCurrParms?
Thank you

Daniel UK1 - 2-6-2020 at 02:35 AM

Quote: Originally posted by moresi522  
Quote: Originally posted by Daniel UK1  


Hi Moresi, not sure i totally understand your question, but if i understand your correctly A and B for example gives you stats for A without WF and B with... if your process dont value with and without WF stats.. you can use Peters market validation macro, that gives you IS relative to OOS degradation.. if you follow peters methodology for cl then you dont use nth, just all data for build.


Hi Daniel,
I would like to understand the meaning of this choice. Don't just do it because you do it. What information does IS results compare to the same data with UseWfCurrParms?
Thank you


Hi Moresi,

I can just answer for myself, how i see it, not anything else.
The stats for with and without wf, gives me really no other view than is WF better to do, or not.. I use it to see if WF is worse, not anything else, since WF is part of my process just to see how stable parameters are, nothing else. So as long as results is not worse, i will use WF. Macro is also very good because these stats allowed you to chose what values you want to use for your own stats in excel, based on these. I for example use values in B D F H for further analysis and comparisons. You might want to use A C E G for your further analysis or you perhaps you decide to look at only d f and h if this is your oos..

For markets and builds where i use Nth and not all data to build on, i dont use this specific WFmacro until absolute final part in my process, it has less value for me and need other stats to deciding things before this stage.

This is just my very personal way of using these tools.


Machine Resource Settings

philhm - 10-6-2020 at 10:04 PM

Hi All,

Does anyone have an idea of what would be the best configuration settings for Workers/Manager for these types of machines:

16x2 (32 Threads) Xeon 176GB

24x2 (48 Threads) Xeon 192GB

Just did an upgrade of both from 128 and trying to get them as optimized as possible for GSB.

Phil

admin - 10-6-2020 at 10:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by philhm  
Hi All,

Does anyone have an idea of what would be the best configuration settings for Workers/Manager for these types of machines:

16x2 (32 Threads) Xeon 176GB

24x2 (48 Threads) Xeon 192GB

Just did an upgrade of both from 128 and trying to get them as optimized as possible for GSB.

Phil

Hi Phil,
let RM decide on the amount of workers.
set your cache settings from 600 /1800 seconds under worker machine resources

matchhanson - 10-6-2020 at 10:22 PM

i am having trouble updating to the newest version (20200525.2) of RM. it tries to download the .zip file then the status changes to stopped then the window closes, all in the space of a second. does anyone have any suggestions?

admin - 10-6-2020 at 10:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by matchhanson  
i am having trouble updating to the newest version (20200525.2) of RM. it tries to download the .zip file then the status changes to stopped then the window closes, all in the space of a second. does anyone have any suggestions?

ive seen that before, but dont have logs to identify the problem

Im happy to fix if you email me teamviewer details.
I want to get the logs and fix problem for all users, not just you.

admin - 10-6-2020 at 10:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by philhm  
Hi All,

Does anyone have an idea of what would be the best configuration settings for Workers/Manager for these types of machines:

16x2 (32 Threads) Xeon 176GB

24x2 (48 Threads) Xeon 192GB

Just did an upgrade of both from 128 and trying to get them as optimized as possible for GSB.

Phil

see https://trademaid.info/forum/viewthread.php?tid=92#pid1347

you can also have cpu settings in RM high.
ram you can go lower, but go too low you may crash the machine.
ram high 15 / ram low 5gb is the extreme I would go.
A bit more buffer on ram better.

agressiveRM.png - 73kB

Daniel UK1 - 11-6-2020 at 08:00 AM

Wanted to start to use PA pro.. but having some issues getting my strats to PA, tried ELD, that comes with PA, but that cant compile in MC... tried Randy version but that causes errors... and i can not manually save excel and convert to xml etc.. not a good approach... does anyone have a ELD that Multichart can work with that will output strategy name and locate end file at a specified folder ?

Thanks

RandyT - 11-6-2020 at 08:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Daniel UK1  
Wanted to start to use PA pro.. but having some issues getting my strats to PA, tried ELD, that comes with PA, but that cant compile in MC... tried Randy version but that causes errors... and i can not manually save excel and convert to xml etc.. not a good approach... does anyone have a ELD that Multichart can work with that will output strategy name and locate end file at a specified folder ?

Thanks


Daniel, most recent version attached. Tell me if that fixes your issues.



Attachment: Login to view the details


Daniel UK1 - 11-6-2020 at 08:22 AM

Many Thanks Randy, will test now.
Btw what is the reason you opted for a separate signal instead of a function used on the trading strategy that pulls name directly from strategy? just curious.

bizgozcd - 16-6-2020 at 06:12 AM

Greetings all. I would like to test variables in standard indicators. Is there a way to get at the indicator settings or do I need to set up custom indicators to do this? Thank you!

Carl - 16-6-2020 at 01:05 PM

Welcome bizgozcd,

I think this is the only way to manually control the parameter settings:

First you build some strategies in GSB.
Then right click a strategy, then choose "Run walk-forward", then "AI WF (parameter analysis)".

The results can be seen under tab "AI WF".

You can set the parameter ranges in the left window under "AI params".


Daniel UK1 - 19-6-2020 at 02:55 AM

Hi,

I believe there is an issue when it comes to creating a macro for settings (tried both full and partial etc), this is the case when i load an older saved opt setting from a older manager version , in a never manager.

I my attempt i loaded an old opt setting into the new manager, changed the setting in the file meny (adapt to new settings and default) to NO, i then got my old setting without new defaults (i believe), and then tried to create a macro to share to another user, however.. the settings that the macro delivered was not at all what was in my saved opt setting, so something fishy here.

Another issue, is that when you open a new manager, and try to load an old opt setting, set the switch to NO for (adapt to new settings and defaults).. you get your old settings... but if i then switch back to YES (adapt to new settings and defaults) i get neither standard defaults or the old saved settings.

Both these issues makes me worried and not comfortable that this feature really gives me for sure my old settings only in a new manager and handles this properly.

Is there something i misunderstand?

I believe the correct way is to load the old opt setting, and then switch to NO for (adapt to new settings and defaults), and not switch to NO before load? (however when trying this after the load of the opt setting, the swtich is back to YES..

Some confusion on this from my side

Cheers

admin - 19-6-2020 at 02:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Daniel UK1  
Hi,

I believe there is an issue when it comes to creating a macro for settings (tried both full and partial etc), this is the case when i load an older saved opt setting from a older manager version , in a never manager.

I my attempt i loaded an old opt setting into the new manager, changed the setting in the file meny (adapt to new settings and default) to NO, i then got my old setting without new defaults (i believe), and then tried to create a macro to share to another user, however.. the settings that the macro delivered was not at all what was in my saved opt setting, so something fishy here.

Another issue, is that when you open a new manager, and try to load an old opt setting, set the switch to NO for (adapt to new settings and defaults).. you get your old settings... but if i then switch back to YES (adapt to new settings and defaults) i get neither standard defaults or the old saved settings.

Both these issues makes me worried and not comfortable that this feature really gives me for sure my old settings only in a new manager and handles this properly.

Is there something i misunderstand?

I believe the correct way is to load the old opt setting, and then switch to NO for (adapt to new settings and defaults), and not switch to NO before load? (however when trying this after the load of the opt setting, the swtich is back to YES..

Some confusion on this from my side

Cheers

Hi Daniel
im happy to look at the macro with you over team viewer in 14 or so hours onwards, else monday
I will ask the programmer on the other issue.

bizgozcd - 21-6-2020 at 07:38 AM

Question. I completed a run that generated 8200 unique systems. When I ran Macro 1, it only added to favorites and did walks forward on 12 of them. I repeated it and it did the same thing. Any idea why this may be happening? I verified in the macro that it is set to 250. Thanks again.

NickW - 21-6-2020 at 07:49 AM

Edit the macro and see what the criteria is.
Normally it will filter your 8200 systems by PF > 1.8 and Num Trades > 100 and Pearson > 0.95 and then from the remaining systems that passes this test, it will select the Top250.
Sometimes you just dont have enough systems that passes the criteria to select 250.

bizgozcd - 21-6-2020 at 07:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by NickW  
Edit the macro and see what the criteria is.
Normally it will filter your 8200 systems by PF > 1.8 and Num Trades > 100 and Pearson > 0.95 and then from the remaining systems that passes this test, it will select the Top250.
Sometimes you just dont have enough systems that passes the criteria to select 250.


Aha! Thank you. Turns out it was working fine, 12 was all that passed. Default settings in Macro 1 were more stringent than noted above.

bizgozcd - 23-6-2020 at 01:23 PM

Hello again. I have compiled a list of things I'm not totally clear on. Hoping for some help from the experienced users/Admin.

1. I do not fully understand the difference between Optimizing Price Data and TPD and Verification Price Data? Trying to understand the role each has in the process so I can understand what happens if I use multiple options (timeframes and/or related products) in any/all the data streams above.

2. Nth Day Mode: What exactly does Trade/No Trade/All do? Should I be running 3 separate optimizations with these options, with everything else the same to compare the results of each?

3. Is it “best practices” to avoid trading a seemingly profitable system that has a low ‘%-F’ (% profitable) if everything else lines up?

RandyT - 23-6-2020 at 02:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bizgozcd  
Hello again. I have compiled a list of things I'm not totally clear on. Hoping for some help from the experienced users/Admin.

1. I do not fully understand the difference between Optimizing Price Data and TPD and Verification Price Data? Trying to understand the role each has in the process so I can understand what happens if I use multiple options (timeframes and/or related products) in any/all the data streams above.

2. Nth Day Mode: What exactly does Trade/No Trade/All do? Should I be running 3 separate optimizations with these options, with everything else the same to compare the results of each?

3. Is it “best practices” to avoid trading a seemingly profitable system that has a low ‘%-F’ (% profitable) if everything else lines up?


bizgozcd, welcome to the struggle.

1.
a. Verify Price data is typically the same price data you have used in Optimization Price Data, however it is randomized with some noise. You can create this data by right clicking in the price data list and clone with random noise. This data is used to verify the optimization results with random data.

b. WF Price Data gives you the ability to use a different data set to run the WF optimization on. Different from what the data used to model the system. I've never used this as it uses the same data if you leave it blank.

c. WF TPD I cannot explain and have never used.


2. I will take a stab at explaining Nth mode. This is also pretty well documented although it takes a few passes to fully understand. Basically, this allows you to define some interval of data that the optimization process will pass over that data. So rather than create a date or percentage of data to define your In Sample and Out Of Sample periods, Nth mode uses a portion for In Sample (Trd), then runs against the next period for Out of Sample (NoTrd). So if you use a Nth Day =1 and a Nth Day period of 80, every 80 days of data will be used to test In Sample results against unseen 80 days of data. That probably still doesn't make complete sense. I would recommend studying Peter's example of how he is using this in some of the most recent CL system development.

3. My only comment regarding the low %-F may be an issue with stoploss being too tight. It personally makes me pretty nervous to buy into a system that is right less than 50% of the time.

Hope that helps

Daniel UK1 - 23-6-2020 at 03:43 PM

Just to chip in...
c, if you WF for example 29, 30 and 31 min data, then you need to specify TPD for WF, in this case 30min..

Btw, just saw that WF efficiency is added as a metric to sort on in fav macro, should be interesting to test as a robustness metric.. nothing to do with the above though :)

bizgozcd - 24-6-2020 at 09:40 AM

Thanks Randy and Daniel for the answers. Yes, I do understand that GSB is verifying the result from the optimization, but I'm trying to understand this on a higher level. For example, what exactly does the verification do that the optimization didn't or what is it verifying? ie. if the verification "result" is better than the original...or worse...or passes verification or fails....what happens? Does Verification process the original optimization result somehow or is verification merely a reporting function for me to manually compare? Or...is the verification process changing the results somehow?

WRT Nth mode...I have read the documentation on this multiple times already and watched the methodology videos lots of times. I am pretty sure I understand the methodology process in using it, just not what is happening behind the scenes. Let me rephrase my question on this. I understand Nth mode, that it is alternating periods of trade and no trade. But I do not understand what it is doing if I select Trade/No Trade/All. If I'm selecting Nth mode (ie 1 and 80) is it alternating periods anyway regardless of what i select? If I select ALL, does that mean it's not using Nth periods, just one big period? Does All process both the Trade and No Trade periods at the same time, thus saving me from running Trade and No Trade optimizations separately, so that I can view the in sample and out of sample data separately or must I manually run fresh optimizations separately with each setting and compare afterwards?

>> WF Price Data gives you the ability to use a different data set to run the WF optimization on. Different from what the data used to model the system. I've never used this as it uses the same data if you leave it blank.

Totally clear. :) Thank you.

Thanks again. I figure I got this far, may as well understand it as well as I can before implementing anything.

admin - 24-6-2020 at 05:03 PM

Verification puts the same system on different data.
it could be the same data with random noise, different time frame or different symbol.
You would expect the average result to degrade.
The criteria for verification is here.
verification.png - 83kB

So you can have vs thast says say 4 out of 8 streams passed or vss which is the % degradation.
For ES this worked well (been so long I forgot what one was best, I know it was random noise was best - 4 x 5 ticks and 4 x 10 ticks)
but for CL i didnt get improvement

with nth, if you build nth no trade, you can then click trade and you see the alt set of data which is out of sample.
if you put it to all, you see the IS and OOS.
You can also build systems with nth trade, and put the post trade setting to no trade. SO then whatever is in the GUI is now OOS. This is how we do indicator testing.

bizgozcd - 29-6-2020 at 07:04 AM

Greetings once again.

So, I’ve had a few internet issues halfway through an optimization. Is there a way to stop the process so that I can reboot my computer and then continue where I left off?

The only thing I was able to find was the auto save function, but if that's the best way to recover, how can I move those systems back to the Unique Systems tab to perform macros?

Thank you.

Daniel UK1 - 29-6-2020 at 07:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bizgozcd  
Greetings once again.

So, I’ve had a few internet issues halfway through an optimization. Is there a way to stop the process so that I can reboot my computer and then continue where I left off?

The only thing I was able to find was the auto save function, but if that's the best way to recover, how can I move those systems back to the Unique Systems tab to perform macros?

Thank you.


Hi There,

Probably best to just mark all systems, then right click and save systems, then reboot, and rght click again in a new manager and then load all saved systems to same opt setting and continue your process.. good luck

As a side note, A a good tip is to make at least 4-5 or more builds of 25-50k systems on same opt setting your are testing and get the averages of the stats, so you make sure to take a decision on not random data..

Carl - 29-6-2020 at 11:18 AM

My thoughts:
after the pc restart, start gsb, check if the loaded gsboptset file is the one you were using, and then load the saved strategies that were built using this gsboptset file.

bizgozcd - 30-6-2020 at 08:17 AM

Thanks for the answers. If GSB starts again, does it start from the very beginning? Will the results be different every run? (As each optimization is collecting only a sample of the possible systems).

Carl - 30-6-2020 at 09:03 AM

Yes, also depends or the "seed" GSB uses.
Peter advises using 4 or 5 different GSB runs.

bizgozcd - 11-7-2020 at 06:18 AM

I’ve had a few internet issues the last few days, sometimes requiring my computer to reboot to get back to normal.

So my question is, If I’m halfway through an optimization, is there a way to reboot my computer and then continue where I left off in GSB? I have since set up the Auto Save Performance filter, but I would like to move all of those systems to the unique systems Tab on the main Dashboard page. Is there a way to either restore with all the saved data or have GSB pick up where it stopped?

Thanks again.

admin - 11-7-2020 at 06:31 AM

Quote: Originally posted by bizgozcd  
I’ve had a few internet issues the last few days, sometimes requiring my computer to reboot to get back to normal.

So my question is, If I’m halfway through an optimization, is there a way to reboot my computer and then continue where I left off in GSB? I have since set up the Auto Save Performance filter, but I would like to move all of those systems to the unique systems Tab on the main Dashboard page. Is there a way to either restore with all the saved data or have GSB pick up where it stopped?

Thanks again.

auto save is a pain, takes too much disk space.
If you havnt got the 250 systems, i would start again.
But if you have the 250 systems, you could save them and load them if you crash.

A internet issue shouldnt cause your machine to need to reboot. But regardless UN-planed reboots occur to most of us on occasions. Windows also needs a reboot from time to time to be stable for many users. A once a week reboot is important on my live trading pc for stability
also to load 50k systems can take a very long time.
Consider buying another server, or rent a server is going to help your situation too.

Problems Opening TS Workspace for Free Systems

Transatlantic - 12-7-2020 at 08:24 AM

Hi,

I followed the instruction on the YouTube video correctly to the best of my knowledge and did create the custom session 0830_1500. I have that session working correctly on a new chart I added.

When I open the TS Workspace 'GsbEQ+NQ Amended', I get an error in TS stating the following:

1. Selected Custom Session Template has been removed. The regular session will be used.
2. You may not mix symbols with different delays in the same window.

I think #2 is the problem since it appears to be opening a delayed version of @NQ (@NQ.D) yet I have real-time permissions for @NQ. I guess the issue is with Data2 for $NDX.X?

Note I can open $NDX.X on a separate chart but I notice for some reason it actually uses $NDX.X(D).

Any help much appreciated. Thanks.

Scott

DocBober55 - 12-7-2020 at 09:10 AM

When I open $NDX.X on a chart there is no indication that data is delayed [i.e. no (D) after the symbol - $NDX.X is what shows]. Evidently you are getting delayed data for $NDX.X. You probably could straighten out the data issue by calling TradeStation support. Sometimes, when I update my data subscriptions on-line it does not work properly.

Carl - 12-7-2020 at 10:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Transatlantic  
Hi,

I followed the instruction on the YouTube video correctly to the best of my knowledge and did create the custom session 0830_1500. I have that session working correctly on a new chart I added.

When I open the TS Workspace 'GsbEQ+NQ Amended', I get an error in TS stating the following:

1. Selected Custom Session Template has been removed. The regular session will be used.
2. You may not mix symbols with different delays in the same window.

I think #2 is the problem since it appears to be opening a delayed version of @NQ (@NQ.D) yet I have real-time permissions for @NQ. I guess the issue is with Data2 for $NDX.X?

Note I can open $NDX.X on a separate chart but I notice for some reason it actually uses $NDX.X(D).

Any help much appreciated. Thanks.

Scott


Hi transatlantic,

Putting NQ and NDX.X in the same TS-chart requires local time, not exchange time.

So start a new chart, choose NQ, choose local time, session 830-1500, add data2 NDX.X.

Transatlantic - 12-7-2020 at 10:26 AM

Quote: Originally posted by DocBober55  
When I open $NDX.X on a chart there is no indication that data is delayed [i.e. no (D) after the symbol - $NDX.X is what shows]. Evidently you are getting delayed data for $NDX.X. You probably could straighten out the data issue by calling TradeStation support. Sometimes, when I update my data subscriptions on-line it does not work properly.


Agree and will see if subscribing to real-time Nasdaq corrects this.

Bizarrely TS is giving me $SPX.X real-time by default but is not giving me $NDX.X real-time.

Transatlantic - 12-7-2020 at 10:28 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Carl  
Quote: Originally posted by Transatlantic  
H

Hi transatlantic,

Putting NQ and NDX.X in the same TS-chart requires local time, not exchange time.

So start a new chart, choose NQ, choose local time, session 830-1500, add data2 NDX.X.


Hi Carl,

Thanks for your help but that does not work. I just tried it again. The issue seems to be that regardless of how $NDX.X is specified it is using $NDX.X(D) which seems to cause problems.

Scott

Carl - 12-7-2020 at 10:39 AM

Hi Scott,

Then the issue is caused by the fact you don't have a Tradestation subscription to the indices like NDX.X.
I think it costs an extra 2 or 3 USD a month.

But you can test the strategy with NQ as data2 as well.

admin - 12-7-2020 at 06:00 PM

Quote: Originally posted by DocBober55  
When I open $NDX.X on a chart there is no indication that data is delayed [i.e. no (D) after the symbol - $NDX.X is what shows]. Evidently you are getting delayed data for $NDX.X. You probably could straighten out the data issue by calling TradeStation support. Sometimes, when I update my data subscriptions on-line it does not work properly.

I wouldnt bother with NQ.
When NQ was made from the ES system, we were aware the system was not as robust as the ES system. This turned out to be the case.

bizgozcd - 14-7-2020 at 02:27 PM

Hello again.

Making excellent progress, moving up the learning curve.

I've now used the methodology several times and I've come up with a system I want to paper trade on TS.

Copied the script over to TS and applied to a chart. TS is not closing out the trades end of day as is built into the system. I believe the session settings are correct because I've been able to match up trades between GSB and TS on other systems I've tried and I'm using the same settings. Is there anything else I need to look at? (Exit on Close is set to GSB, not TS, but I don't think that should matter as the Manual says difference is shorter code for EL?) One last question...is there a way to change a single parameter within GSB or is editing the script required?

Many thanks.

admin - 14-7-2020 at 04:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bizgozcd  
Hello again.

Making excellent progress, moving up the learning curve.

I've now used the methodology several times and I've come up with a system I want to paper trade on TS.

Copied the script over to TS and applied to a chart. TS is not closing out the trades end of day as is built into the system. I believe the session settings are correct because I've been able to match up trades between GSB and TS on other systems I've tried and I'm using the same settings. Is there anything else I need to look at? (Exit on Close is set to GSB, not TS, but I don't think that should matter as the Manual says difference is shorter code for EL?) One last question...is there a way to change a single parameter within GSB or is editing the script required?

Many thanks.



Great you made progress.
If your not trading at a ts brokeage account,
add setexitonclose; any where in the code will fix it.
check your code times match
is if last bar is 1500, then if time >= 1500 then {exit trades}
This time might be different. If they are differnet, you need to check all times in the code.
Check your last bar of day = the same time of the data in GSB

getty002 - 15-7-2020 at 12:15 AM

Thanks, I'm in the same spot and had the same issue. I'll add that to the code to exit at close.

getty002 - 15-7-2020 at 12:26 AM

This is a question unrelated to GSB, but unfortunately it won't let me create a new topic as a newbie. BTW, glad to join your community!

My question is related to the topic of how to identify when a strategy has decayed sufficiently to consider making changes. Does anyone have any TS indicators or quantitative calculations for statistically evaluating when to make a strategy change? I watched this great video by "Trade-Systech" which shows a T-statistic method for evaluating performance that's outside the distribution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=635u9rolv4I&t=611s

It looks like he's also a GSB user? If you know who he is, perhaps send me his handle so I could IM him. As a reference, another good read on statistical analysis of trading system performance is here (a bit old, 2014): https://www.stat.berkeley.edu/~aldous/157/Papers/harvey.pdf

Thanks in advance!

admin - 15-7-2020 at 12:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by getty002  
This is a question unrelated to GSB, but unfortunately it won't let me create a new topic as a newbie. BTW, glad to join your community!

My question is related to the topic of how to identify when a strategy has decayed sufficiently to consider making changes. Does anyone have any TS indicators or quantitative calculations for statistically evaluating when to make a strategy change? I watched this great video by "Trade-Systech" which shows a T-statistic method for evaluating performance that's outside the distribution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=635u9rolv4I&t=611s

It looks like he's also a GSB user? If you know who he is, perhaps send me his handle so I could IM him. As a reference, another good read on statistical analysis of trading system performance is here (a bit old, 2014): https://www.stat.berkeley.edu/~aldous/157/Papers/harvey.pdf

Thanks in advance!

I dont know who it is, and the ts code at the end of the video doesnt look like GSB
His web site is no longer.
I have a different approach, and im not saying its not got room to improve.
I use pa pro (my product) and if the system has not made profit it the last year or pa pro just thinks it doesnt improve np/dd of the portfolio, the system gets dropped. I dont know anyone who claims to be good at restarting systems that fail.
I just rarely trade more than one contract per system, so I get high diversified with lots of systems

getty002 - 15-7-2020 at 01:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by admin  
Quote: Originally posted by getty002  
This is a question unrelated to GSB, but unfortunately it won't let me create a new topic as a newbie. BTW, glad to join your community!

My question is related to the topic of how to identify when a strategy has decayed sufficiently to consider making changes. Does anyone have any TS indicators or quantitative calculations for statistically evaluating when to make a strategy change? I watched this great video by "Trade-Systech" which shows a T-statistic method for evaluating performance that's outside the distribution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=635u9rolv4I&t=611s

It looks like he's also a GSB user? If you know who he is, perhaps send me his handle so I could IM him. As a reference, another good read on statistical analysis of trading system performance is here (a bit old, 2014): https://www.stat.berkeley.edu/~aldous/157/Papers/harvey.pdf

Thanks in advance!

I dont know who it is, and the ts code at the end of the video doesnt look like GSB
His web site is no longer.
I have a different approach, and im not saying its not got room to improve.
I use pa pro (my product) and if the system has not made profit it the last year or pa pro just thinks it doesnt improve np/dd of the portfolio, the system gets dropped. I dont know anyone who claims to be good at restarting systems that fail.
I just rarely trade more than one contract per system, so I get high diversified with lots of systems


Right, I will be diving into PA Pro soon once I feel like I've mastered GSB. Regarding diversification through many strategies, in practice, what's the most number of strategies you'd consider putting on a single instrument?

The reason an indicator approach is attractive (in addition to your method, not in exclusion) is that I dynamically see there's potential problem when monitoring in Tradestation. If I have say 30 charts up, an indicator method would provide a very fast way of identifying a suspect strategy in TS to review more closely. In fact, I'd probably set an alert to get an email, if it were a reliable metric.

Thanks for your help.


admin - 15-7-2020 at 01:22 AM

Hi Getty
In a perfect world you have many markets ,time frames. However it takes us a long time to master new markets.
I have quite a few markets, but lots of them are from GSB build 2 or more years ago. These dont benefit from what we have learnt in the last 6 months.
So its a constant cycle of re-applying what we learn from one market, onto another market.
Some things are unique to each market, but many things are in common too.

Carl - 15-7-2020 at 01:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by getty002  
This is a question unrelated to GSB, but unfortunately it won't let me create a new topic as a newbie. BTW, glad to join your community!

My question is related to the topic of how to identify when a strategy has decayed sufficiently to consider making changes. Does anyone have any TS indicators or quantitative calculations for statistically evaluating when to make a strategy change? I watched this great video by "Trade-Systech" which shows a T-statistic method for evaluating performance that's outside the distribution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=635u9rolv4I&t=611s

It looks like he's also a GSB user? If you know who he is, perhaps send me his handle so I could IM him. As a reference, another good read on statistical analysis of trading system performance is here (a bit old, 2014): https://www.stat.berkeley.edu/~aldous/157/Papers/harvey.pdf

Thanks in advance!


Hi getty002,

The T-statistic shows if the sample (i.e. most recent 30 trades) could be part of the population (i.e. all trades sofar without the most recent 30 trades) based on average and standard deviation.

If the sample is an outlier with a small chance of only x% that it could be part of the population, you could consider stop trading this strategy.

More info here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-statistic

I know who the guy in the video is on the GSB forum.
He follows the forum every now and then.
So if he feels like it, he can react to these posts.

And an updated version of the 2014 document you mentioned can be found here:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2474755

gaAutoStopped

winbolton - 16-7-2020 at 11:59 AM

My systems are stopping prematurely. under optimization status on the right hand side, the status = gaAutoStopped

It seems to only happen when I change any of the stop losses from false to true

I cant find any documentation on it. What does this mean?

Capture.PNG - 11kB

getty002 - 16-7-2020 at 12:44 PM

Thank you Carl and Peter

getty002 - 16-7-2020 at 01:02 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Daniel UK1  
Quote: Originally posted by bizgozcd  
Greetings once again.

So, I’ve had a few internet issues halfway through an optimization. Is there a way to stop the process so that I can reboot my computer and then continue where I left off?

The only thing I was able to find was the auto save function, but if that's the best way to recover, how can I move those systems back to the Unique Systems tab to perform macros?

Thank you.


Hi There,

Probably best to just mark all systems, then right click and save systems, then reboot, and rght click again in a new manager and then load all saved systems to same opt setting and continue your process.. good luck

As a side note, A a good tip is to make at least 4-5 or more builds of 25-50k systems on same opt setting your are testing and get the averages of the stats, so you make sure to take a decision on not random data..



Hi Daniel,

Is there a reason I wouldn't simply run 200K systems then? My assumption is that would be simpler than running 50K systems 4 times. Thanks for your input.

bizgozcd - 16-7-2020 at 02:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by admin  



Great you made progress.
If your not trading at a ts brokeage account,
add setexitonclose; any where in the code will fix it.
check your code times match
is if last bar is 1500, then if time >= 1500 then {exit trades}
This time might be different. If they are differnet, you need to check all times in the code.
Check your last bar of day = the same time of the data in GSB


Hi Peter,

I added the line you suggested, however TS did not enter or execute a Market on Close today. (It did correctly enter the trade and simultaneously enter a stop.)

Also, I noticed that the GSB ES System had this code in it:

//Added march 2020 to fix market on close failures on live TS brokeage accounts.
If TIME =SessionEndTime(0,1) THEN BEGIN
Sell ("LX_EOD") THIS BAR AT CLOSE;
Buy TO COVER ("SX_EOD") THIS BAR AT CLOSE;
END;

Do you think this could fix my issue as well?

Daniel UK1 - 16-7-2020 at 03:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by getty002  
Quote: Originally posted by Daniel UK1  
Quote: Originally posted by bizgozcd  
Greetings once again.

So, I’ve had a few internet issues halfway through an optimization. Is there a way to stop the process so that I can reboot my computer and then continue where I left off?

The only thing I was able to find was the auto save function, but if that's the best way to recover, how can I move those systems back to the Unique Systems tab to perform macros?

Thank you.


Hi There,

Probably best to just mark all systems, then right click and save systems, then reboot, and rght click again in a new manager and then load all saved systems to same opt setting and continue your process.. good luck

As a side note, A a good tip is to make at least 4-5 or more builds of 25-50k systems on same opt setting your are testing and get the averages of the stats, so you make sure to take a decision on not random data..



Hi Daniel,

Is there a reason I wouldn't simply run 200K systems then? My assumption is that would be simpler than running 50K systems 4 times. Thanks for your input.


Hi There, i assume that would be an option if you feel thats easier for you, but i do not think it would be the same.

I prefer to not do it like that, and i instead would prefer to start 4 different managers and run 4 separate builds and get the average of that for all stats i make.




admin - 16-7-2020 at 06:56 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bizgozcd  
Quote: Originally posted by admin  



Great you made progress.
If your not trading at a ts brokeage account,
add setexitonclose; any where in the code will fix it.
check your code times match
is if last bar is 1500, then if time >= 1500 then {exit trades}
This time might be different. If they are differnet, you need to check all times in the code.
Check your last bar of day = the same time of the data in GSB


Hi Peter,

I added the line you suggested, however TS did not enter or execute a Market on Close today. (It did correctly enter the trade and simultaneously enter a stop.)

Also, I noticed that the GSB ES System had this code in it:

//Added march 2020 to fix market on close failures on live TS brokeage accounts.
If TIME =SessionEndTime(0,1) THEN BEGIN
Sell ("LX_EOD") THIS BAR AT CLOSE;
Buy TO COVER ("SX_EOD") THIS BAR AT CLOSE;
END;

Do you think this could fix my issue as well?

Yes, This code should fix the issue.

admin - 16-7-2020 at 06:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Daniel UK1  
Quote: Originally posted by getty002  
Quote: Originally posted by Daniel UK1  
Quote: Originally posted by bizgozcd  
Greetings once again.

So, I’ve had a few internet issues halfway through an optimization. Is there a way to stop the process so that I can reboot my computer and then continue where I left off?

The only thing I was able to find was the auto save function, but if that's the best way to recover, how can I move those systems back to the Unique Systems tab to perform macros?

Thank you.


Hi There,

Probably best to just mark all systems, then right click and save systems, then reboot, and rght click again in a new manager and then load all saved systems to same opt setting and continue your process.. good luck

As a side note, A a good tip is to make at least 4-5 or more builds of 25-50k systems on same opt setting your are testing and get the averages of the stats, so you make sure to take a decision on not random data..



Hi Daniel,

Is there a reason I wouldn't simply run 200K systems then? My assumption is that would be simpler than running 50K systems 4 times. Thanks for your input.


Hi There, i assume that would be an option if you feel thats easier for you, but i do not think it would be the same.

I prefer to not do it like that, and i instead would prefer to start 4 different managers and run 4 separate builds and get the average of that for all stats i make.




I agree with Daniel. 200k will not at all give the same results.
it will have 1 set of indicators, while 4 test will have 4 different set of indicators.

getty002 - 16-7-2020 at 10:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by admin  
Quote: Originally posted by Daniel UK1  


Hi There, i assume that would be an option if you feel thats easier for you, but i do not think it would be the same.

I prefer to not do it like that, and i instead would prefer to start 4 different managers and run 4 separate builds and get the average of that for all stats i make.


I agree with Daniel. 200k will not at all give the same results.
it will have 1 set of indicators, while 4 test will have 4 different set of indicators.


Hi guys,

why would I have 4 different set of indicators if the opt settings are the same each time?

Thanks...

admin - 16-7-2020 at 10:47 PM

because every time you run indicator testing, the results normally vary
See enclosed example

vary.png - 66kB

RandyT - 17-7-2020 at 07:26 AM

Quote: Originally posted by getty002  

Hi guys,

why would I have 4 different set of indicators if the opt settings are the same each time?

Thanks...


@getty002,

To answer your question in the broader sense, GSB is using a genetic algorithm to arrive at the results. By nature, GA being an evolutionary algorithm, will typically not arrive at the same results every time.

More details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_algorithm

getty002 - 18-7-2020 at 03:37 AM

Thanks Randy. I'm familiar with genetic optimization having used it previously for other applications. Ultimately, an exhaustive search will find all possibilities, and genetic optimization attempts to reduce the search space, as do other optimization schemes. Having said this, restarting an entirely new 50K search from scratch will inevitably cover portions of the net search space already covered with the 50K samples before it. I'm simply wondering about the inefficiency of performing 4 separate 50K searches that are unaware of the search space covered before it.


getty002 - 18-7-2020 at 03:43 AM


I could use some help with basic problems I'm having with reading in data. The primary problem I have is related to the "Public Data Directory". My install is not to C:\GSB, but to Google drive (should be similar to dropbox others here use). The confusion is around which directory is selected to get access to the pre-installed files. I get "FileNotFoundException" whether I use either of these two locations:
C:\<>\Google Drive\GSB\Data\
C:\<>\Google Drive\GSB\Data\Price Data

Both result in the same error above and do not run the basic CL or ES pre-installed optimization settings. I CAN manually change every single OPT and TPD file location individually to override the error, but then this entirely defeats the point of specifying the "Public Data Directory" location if I have to specify every single file location independently.

The handing of the Public Data Directory is peculiar, when I select a directory, often it puts another sub-directory "Price Data" below it. Very confusing for me. File location handling has been the biggest challenge I've encountered so far with GSB. Your help would be appreciated.
Thanks for your help.

getty002 - 18-7-2020 at 03:58 AM

Perhaps to clarify and simplify my question above, I'm using the following optimization file:

CL30-AdvancedModeOff.gsboptset

When using this file, it doesn't run, it gives the "FileNotFoundException" error. I then try changing the "Public Data Directory" to:
C:\<>\Google Drive\GSB\
C:\<>\Google Drive\GSB\Data\
C:\<>\Google Drive\GSB\Data\Price Data\

None of these 3 work to find the CL data pre-loaded with GSB. Hopefully this is now clearer the problem I'm encountering. I am, however, able to get this optimization file to run fine using my own data and specifying the exact location under the TPD and OPD price data. It can become frustrating though, because as soon as I change the optimization file, but want to use the same TPD file, it requires that I open the price data and locate each individual file again. Sorry for the really long post - hopefully there's something really simple I'm missing.

Daniel UK1 - 18-7-2020 at 06:19 AM

Quote: Originally posted by getty002  
Thanks Randy. I'm familiar with genetic optimization having used it previously for other applications. Ultimately, an exhaustive search will find all possibilities, and genetic optimization attempts to reduce the search space, as do other optimization schemes. Having said this, restarting an entirely new 50K search from scratch will inevitably cover portions of the net search space already covered with the 50K samples before it. I'm simply wondering about the inefficiency of performing 4 separate 50K searches that are unaware of the search space covered before it.



Hi Getty, My very much personal reasoning for using 4 or more separate builds, is that results can vary quite a lot between builds... and a decision taken based on the outcome from just one build where results can be randomly at the very top of the distribution of results or at the very bottom, can make my reasoning behind the decision useless, hence i like to get the average of several builds in order to increase the chance that my decision making has merit.


Many others i assume do things differently, we all have our own way to do things. No right or wrong, just different outcomes perhaps.

bizgozcd - 18-7-2020 at 12:40 PM

Question about Walks Forward.

The biggest bottleneck for me with my 2 machine setup + GSB cloud when available has been WF's. I'm wondering if cutting the number down to the top 100 or even 50 instead of 250 would sacrifice much in the big picture.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

getty002 - 18-7-2020 at 08:31 PM

Thanks Daniel, Randy, and Peter. I'll use the 4 or 5, 50K sets as you suggest.

I could use some help from the experienced users here regarding creating a portfolio of GSB strategies:

1) I'm looking to generate 12-14 strategies for my first GSB portfolio. Although, it would be far preferable to have 14 strategies on 6 or more instruments, based upon my current long run-time and challenges entering each new market, I'm considering 14 strategies on a single instrument (with hopefully sufficient decorrelation). Based upon user experience with GSB, is it reasonable to put 14 strategies on ES? I'd be shooting to have less than 30% correlation between any 2 strategies.

2) I'd like to set the minimum trades per month (historically), across the strategies. I know I can set minimum # of trades for the entire test period, but is there a way to set minimum trades over shorter intervals (i.e. per month) in GSB? I'm trying to avoid long periods of an idle portfolio.

3) Is there any metric earlier in the GSB pipeline to assess strategy correlation (so I can remove)? The family function does this to some degree, but I'm trying to avoid days of creating a single new strategy, only to find out in PA Pro that the strategy is 50% correlated to another in the portfolio and I have to toss it. Do the different families generally tend to provide sufficient decorrelation?

Thanks for your inputs!

DocBober55 - 19-7-2020 at 12:29 AM

I often find that when I add a new data folder containing data for a new symbol to my C:\GSB\Data\Price Data folder, then try to change the Opt. Price Data in my Manager to use the new data,
that unless I am very lucky I get very frustrating error messages. It seems that you must be very careful or lucky and remove a data path on the right side panel, hit buttons like "deselect",
type in a symbol name in the correct area on the left side panel, etc. If you make an error in this process (and I find that it is very easy to make such an error and very likely that I will make such an error), you get error messages and are unable to change the Opt. price data to the new desired data file. It would be excellent if this process could be clearly demonstrated , step by step, in the instructions.

RandyT - 19-7-2020 at 02:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by getty002  
Thanks Daniel, Randy, and Peter. I'll use the 4 or 5, 50K sets as you suggest.

I could use some help from the experienced users here regarding creating a portfolio of GSB strategies:

1) I'm looking to generate 12-14 strategies for my first GSB portfolio. Although, it would be far preferable to have 14 strategies on 6 or more instruments, based upon my current long run-time and challenges entering each new market, I'm considering 14 strategies on a single instrument (with hopefully sufficient decorrelation). Based upon user experience with GSB, is it reasonable to put 14 strategies on ES? I'd be shooting to have less than 30% correlation between any 2 strategies.

2) I'd like to set the minimum trades per month (historically), across the strategies. I know I can set minimum # of trades for the entire test period, but is there a way to set minimum trades over shorter intervals (i.e. per month) in GSB? I'm trying to avoid long periods of an idle portfolio.

3) Is there any metric earlier in the GSB pipeline to assess strategy correlation (so I can remove)? The family function does this to some degree, but I'm trying to avoid days of creating a single new strategy, only to find out in PA Pro that the strategy is 50% correlated to another in the portfolio and I have to toss it. Do the different families generally tend to provide sufficient decorrelation?

Thanks for your inputs!


@getty, a few comments to your questions.

1. I would be very surprised if you could find 12 uncorrelated systems to trade on the same market. I would love to see you prove me wrong (and share how you achieve that) but I think this is a difficult task. GSB tends to find breakout systems in my experience. Mean reversion for example is not something that can be produced in GSB currently.

2. There is no way to do this currently in GSB. Also, in my experience, it is difficult to find systems over last 10 years that are not flat some part of it. It is all shades of gray as to how much better some systems do over those market regime changes than others.

3. A GSB run has no way of knowing what the performance is of another system you have in your portfolio. Interesting idea, but seems a challenging task. I think this will need to be part of your workflow with PA assessing your results after runs.

FWIW

Edit: Just to add some context to perhaps help with expectations. As an example, the work that Peter has been sharing on CL system development for example, has been months of work. It takes a ton of system resources and lots of time to try the huge number of different possible configurations to reach best system performance. Not meant to be discouraging, but rather to help prepare for a lot of work ahead. Would highly recommend absorbing Peter's latest work on CL as that is the current "state-of-the-art" on system development.

getty002 - 19-7-2020 at 04:48 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RandyT  

@getty, a few comments to your questions.

1. I would be very surprised if you could find 12 uncorrelated systems to trade on the same market. I would love to see you prove me wrong (and share how you achieve that) but I think this is a difficult task. GSB tends to find breakout systems in my experience. Mean reversion for example is not something that can be produced in GSB currently.

2. There is no way to do this currently in GSB. Also, in my experience, it is difficult to find systems over last 10 years that are not flat some part of it. It is all shades of gray as to how much better some systems do over those market regime changes than others.

3. A GSB run has no way of knowing what the performance is of another system you have in your portfolio. Interesting idea, but seems a challenging task. I think this will need to be part of your workflow with PA assessing your results after runs.

FWIW

Edit: Just to add some context to perhaps help with expectations. As an example, the work that Peter has been sharing on CL system development for example, has been months of work. It takes a ton of system resources and lots of time to try the huge number of different possible configurations to reach best system performance. Not meant to be discouraging, but rather to help prepare for a lot of work ahead. Would highly recommend absorbing Peter's latest work on CL as that is the current "state-of-the-art" on system development.


Thanks very much for the reply Randy. It's great to share information on such things as my experience has been that many strategy developers don't want to discuss *anything* for fear of losing alpha. I much prefer this GSB community approach of openness to collectively conquer these really challenging problems as a group.

I realized after posting, just how unlikely it will be to find 12 decorrelated strategies on a single symbol. But having said this, finding perhaps up to 6 strategies on a symbol isn't unreasonable by simply exploiting different market regimes - trending, bear market, momentum, volatile, etc. By employing a regime approach I could expect to have very little correlation between strategies. This would also address my question 2, by identifying strategies that work during low volatility. I've already requested with Peter the ability to perform regime switching.

In a sense, GSB is focused on the volatility regime which is why long periods of the ES system, for example, are flat. The search capabilities of GSB are very powerful. if I were to speculate, part of the reason that low volatility challenges GSB is the frequent lack of use of daily data where signal to noise is high compared to intraday. Yes, volatility creates high SNR which generates us better alpha. But in lower volatility (and lower SNR), longer time-frames are generally needed to become successful (hence the request to include daily data).

I've been watching Peter's last 2 videos on continuous loop and reading the community comments in the private area. Perhaps the easiest approach for my future GSB portfolio to achieve the decorrelated returns I'm looking for is do what I believe the rest of you are doing - invest months searching the equity and energy markets for my 6 symbols and find my 12 decorrelated strategies that way, rather than regimes.

Regarding 3, one approach I've used before for a correlation metric is to average all values by row in the correlation matrix. The lower value, the lower the average correlation to all other strategies. It would be possible to put the average correlation into one of the GSB columns, then I could sort all strategies from least to most correlated. It's possible this may be best done family-to-family. I would see this as an advantage of performing inside GSB rather than PA Pro because I could sort and remove strategies using a macro (or manually) which are too correlated with each other.

admin - 19-7-2020 at 04:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bizgozcd  
Question about Walks Forward.

The biggest bottleneck for me with my 2 machine setup + GSB cloud when available has been WF's. I'm wondering if cutting the number down to the top 100 or even 50 instead of 250 would sacrifice much in the big picture.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Lets say you build familes from you 250 systems.
You might have say 10 families. You can then WF just the 10 families.
If you did 250, each wf will have little bit different results due to random seed in genetic WF, but thats no big deal.

RandyT - 19-7-2020 at 05:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by getty002  

Thanks very much for the reply Randy. It's great to share information on such things as my experience has been that many strategy developers don't want to discuss *anything* for fear of losing alpha. I much prefer this GSB community approach of openness to collectively conquer these really challenging problems as a group.

I realized after posting, just how unlikely it will be to find 12 decorrelated strategies on a single symbol. But having said this, finding perhaps up to 6 strategies on a symbol isn't unreasonable by simply exploiting different market regimes - trending, bear market, momentum, volatile, etc. By employing a regime approach I could expect to have very little correlation between strategies. This would also address my question 2, by identifying strategies that work during low volatility. I've already requested with Peter the ability to perform regime switching.

In a sense, GSB is focused on the volatility regime which is why long periods of the ES system, for example, are flat. The search capabilities of GSB are very powerful. if I were to speculate, part of the reason that low volatility challenges GSB is the frequent lack of use of daily data where signal to noise is high compared to intraday. Yes, volatility creates high SNR which generates us better alpha. But in lower volatility (and lower SNR), longer time-frames are generally needed to become successful (hence the request to include daily data).

I've been watching Peter's last 2 videos on continuous loop and reading the community comments in the private area. Perhaps the easiest approach for my future GSB portfolio to achieve the decorrelated returns I'm looking for is do what I believe the rest of you are doing - invest months searching the equity and energy markets for my 6 symbols and find my 12 decorrelated strategies that way, rather than regimes.

Regarding 3, one approach I've used before for a correlation metric is to average all values by row in the correlation matrix. The lower value, the lower the average correlation to all other strategies. It would be possible to put the average correlation into one of the GSB columns, then I could sort all strategies from least to most correlated. It's possible this may be best done family-to-family. I would see this as an advantage of performing inside GSB rather than PA Pro because I could sort and remove strategies using a macro (or manually) which are too correlated with each other.


@getty, I think that is a reasonable set of expectations and approach from my experience. I've been at it a little less than a year with GSB.

In my limited GSB experience, I find that GSB does quite well in producing systems that do well in volatility. That was demonstrated quite well in the months of Feb, March and April this year. May and June and so far July have been a bit disappointing given the drop in vol.

Daniel UK1 - 22-7-2020 at 12:52 PM

Quote: Originally posted by getty002  
Quote: Originally posted by RandyT  

@getty, a few comments to your questions.

1. I would be very surprised if you could find 12 uncorrelated systems to trade on the same market. I would love to see you prove me wrong (and share how you achieve that) but I think this is a difficult task. GSB tends to find breakout systems in my experience. Mean reversion for example is not something that can be produced in GSB currently.

2. There is no way to do this currently in GSB. Also, in my experience, it is difficult to find systems over last 10 years that are not flat some part of it. It is all shades of gray as to how much better some systems do over those market regime changes than others.

3. A GSB run has no way of knowing what the performance is of another system you have in your portfolio. Interesting idea, but seems a challenging task. I think this will need to be part of your workflow with PA assessing your results after runs.

FWIW

Edit: Just to add some context to perhaps help with expectations. As an example, the work that Peter has been sharing on CL system development for example, has been months of work. It takes a ton of system resources and lots of time to try the huge number of different possible configurations to reach best system performance. Not meant to be discouraging, but rather to help prepare for a lot of work ahead. Would highly recommend absorbing Peter's latest work on CL as that is the current "state-of-the-art" on system development.


Thanks very much for the reply Randy. It's great to share information on such things as my experience has been that many strategy developers don't want to discuss *anything* for fear of losing alpha. I much prefer this GSB community approach of openness to collectively conquer these really challenging problems as a group.

I realized after posting, just how unlikely it will be to find 12 decorrelated strategies on a single symbol. But having said this, finding perhaps up to 6 strategies on a symbol isn't unreasonable by simply exploiting different market regimes - trending, bear market, momentum, volatile, etc. By employing a regime approach I could expect to have very little correlation between strategies. This would also address my question 2, by identifying strategies that work during low volatility. I've already requested with Peter the ability to perform regime switching.

In a sense, GSB is focused on the volatility regime which is why long periods of the ES system, for example, are flat. The search capabilities of GSB are very powerful. if I were to speculate, part of the reason that low volatility challenges GSB is the frequent lack of use of daily data where signal to noise is high compared to intraday. Yes, volatility creates high SNR which generates us better alpha. But in lower volatility (and lower SNR), longer time-frames are generally needed to become successful (hence the request to include daily data).

I've been watching Peter's last 2 videos on continuous loop and reading the community comments in the private area. Perhaps the easiest approach for my future GSB portfolio to achieve the decorrelated returns I'm looking for is do what I believe the rest of you are doing - invest months searching the equity and energy markets for my 6 symbols and find my 12 decorrelated strategies that way, rather than regimes.

Regarding 3, one approach I've used before for a correlation metric is to average all values by row in the correlation matrix. The lower value, the lower the average correlation to all other strategies. It would be possible to put the average correlation into one of the GSB columns, then I could sort all strategies from least to most correlated. It's possible this may be best done family-to-family. I would see this as an advantage of performing inside GSB rather than PA Pro because I could sort and remove strategies using a macro (or manually) which are too correlated with each other.


Getty, just a few thoughts, i think Randy and Peter have covered most of your questions..

But if i was you i would think of a regime filter as another variable that makes things more complicated and that could break your system.. regime filters are quite difficult.. often you become aware and establish a regime when its already happened, ie to late..

I see filters as something you perhaps can ad and in my own case very unlikely, AFTER you have established that your strategy actually have an edge and is very good on its own which is in itself the most important and often overlooked part. Messing with filters and regime filters while developing the basic system is not good since the edge needs to be established on its own. Same way you would go about developing a system in a logic way without GSB, you need to establish the edge for entry and exit on its own and edge in the system before trying to improve with filters (in my very much humble opinion).

There is a ton of things one could do to get better results, Filters, doing just either long or short systems, different indicator values for long and short, using specific targets, using more indicators than 4 etc, each time adding variables that complicates things and make you more prone to break.in this case many people become to greedy and crash :). My approach is simplicity and average is always better than perfect.

Also,i would say its better to develop one really good system and get to know one market, than develop 45 systems in 6 markets in a reckless and speedy way.. i Believe Peter and I started this CL research run around the same time, October 2019, I stopped in june 2020, Peter still at it.. so i mean one market can easily take over 6-8 months, and this was a full time job...

Last thing, sometime a system not taking trades during a period in the markets, is actually a very good thing.. perhaps it is that there is no good edge to have in the current markets, then be happy that the system did not forced any trades, and saved you some cash..

Some good tips on getting some more diversification is different SF, and other timeframes and using other markets as data... however this is difficult because many markets is not very easy in providing many options for SF and Timeframes.

Sorry for my ranting, just my very much personal approach and views.

admin - 22-7-2020 at 05:23 PM

I very much agree with all of Randy's comments, though do not claim to be an expert in regimes.

Carl - 23-7-2020 at 01:50 AM

Adding a filter based on price action can improve performance.
But you have to use in sample and out of sample to see if the filter is robust.
Furthermore the filter has to impact a certain number of trades to be statistically significant.

tornado - 23-7-2020 at 06:56 AM

Hi Peter,

I backuped my personal data and settings include folders Price Data, Settings, and files Contracts.txt, Price Data.txt, Sessions.txt .

I would like to know if i reinstall GSB, is that right to copy those that i just backuped to data folder?

If i do so, will GSB work well?

Thanks.

admin - 23-7-2020 at 05:18 PM

Quote: Originally posted by tornado  
Hi Peter,

I backuped my personal data and settings include folders Price Data, Settings, and files Contracts.txt, Price Data.txt, Sessions.txt .

I would like to know if i reinstall GSB, is that right to copy those that i just backuped to data folder?

If i do so, will GSB work well?

Thanks.

It should do, but why do you need to re-install?
To be save, backup the entire gsb folder using .7zip else zip

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